NZ Unions oppose RSE expansion

Transcript

Unions in New Zealand say they oppose any expansion of the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme.

The RSE allows Pacific workers into New Zealand on short term visas to work in the horticulture sector.

The criticism from New Zealand's Council of Trade Unions comes as talks on the PACER Plus regional trade deal resume in Samoa, with more seasonal work a critical element in getting the island nations onboard.

The CTU's Bill Rosenberg told Koroi Hawkins the RSE scheme is threatening to make Pacific workers a dominant source of employees in the industry.

BILL ROSENBERG: Well the current RSE scheme in New Zealand is capped at about 9000 people coming in each year and has been at a reasonably sustainable state, apart from rising numbers for several years now. We were involved in it right from the start and it was originally meant to accomplish two things. One was obviously to provide work for people from the Pacific Islands. But the other one was to help the development of decent jobs in horticulture and the industry that it covers. Now on the first one it has been reasonably successful. On the second one it has made no progress whatsoever and that is where our concerns lie.

KOROI HAWKINS: Right and what do you mean by this? If you can expand on not making progress in the second instance?

BR: So the thing about these, the horticultural industries that it covers, fruit picking viticulture those kinds of things, is that they are highly seasonal and frequently workers will work for it just a few days or weeks at the most at one employer and then have to find work elsewhere. The pay is very low and the conditions are frequently not good. What we were hoping was that we could develop a industry where workers could raise their skill levels so that they got better paying conditions, that we could work out better methods of employing them, so that they had a short path from employer to employer. And so there was a some security of employment over the course of a season making it much more attractive for New Zealanders to work in those industries. Now that has never really taken place. And what we are concerned is that the employers have taken the RSE scheme and said right that suits us, this is working for us, we don't need to do anything substantial to make it more attractive for New Zealand workers.

KH: Right and now this week PACER PLUS the negotiations between Australia and New Zealand and the Pacific Islands is going forward. And one of the things that the Pacific governments particularly are interested in is expanding these seasonal work schemes. And Australia has recently lifted the cap on its scheme and expanded it to other industries outside of agriculture and horticulture. Now what is your view on what Australia has done and how that relates to New Zealand's RSE?

BR: Well I think the actions of the Australian government, which were not consulted on with unions there, raise considerable concerns for people there. Because there are issues about exploitation, there are issues about the use of backpackers for some of the purposes and those that haven't been properly addressed. It also establishes a precedent that will be used to put pressure on the New Zealand government to do, make similar concessions over here. Which is something that we would resist very, quite strongly because we feel that increasing the number of people on these kinds of schemes does undermine the paying conditions of New Zealanders, trying to get decent jobs in those industries.

KH: So it is not just the availability of jobs, but it is also the amount at which these RSE workers can be paid, which would be lower than what New Zealand workers could expect to be paid?

BR: Well they are paid the minimum wage, which is perfectly legal. Its the concern is that being able to obtain those workers in a way where they are, where the workers have very little opportunity to demand better pay. It means that employers don't feel any compulsion to offer better paying conditions to New Zealand workers because they have a ready supply of workers from the Pacific who they have significant control over.

KH: Right and what are you proposing as a solution maybe or a way forward for this?

BR: Well I think we have to go back to try to get a sustainable industry, sustainable jobs in those industries for New Zealand workers and looking at ways to raise the attractiveness of jobs in those industries for New Zealand workers. That doesn't mean that we want to disband the RSE scheme, it certainly does have a place and the scheme obviously does have a development role for the Pacific islands. But for it to be the dominant way of employing people in the industry really is not helpful for the development of the industry for New Zealand workers. There have been suggestions from the PACER PLUS nations that the RSE scheme or something like it be expanded into other industries like aged care or even further into construction or manufacturing or  other industries. We would be very concerned at that because we think that the problems that would arise there would just be similar to or even more concerning than what has happened in the RSE scheme.