Transcript
JOVILISI SUVEINAKAMA: If you look at the history of air services in Tokelau, we've had about five or six reports about the air service. All the issues Dominic came down to cost. It was a cost that either New Zealand wasn't prepared to take at that time or was actually not part of New Zealand's priority for Tokelau. Then it came to a point where Tokelau said, 'well why don't we agree on three things?' We agree on what New Zealand can fully fund, what New Zealand and Tokelau can partially fund, and what Tokelau can fully fund. And air service and internet cable were two things that Tokelau was going to take on its own under its new budget framework.
DOMINIC GODFREY: What timeframe was this?
JS: This was actually as we began to map out our new strategic plan 2016-2020.
DG: So this was in 2015?
JS: This was 2015 yes.
DG: The two key priorities that Tokelau could fund were the internet cable and the air services three phase plan?
JS: There were more than that Dominic but it was part of a four year plan. [NZ] $10-million per year budget for four years, from 2016 to 2020.
DG: And this is entirely funded through Tokelau's fisheries revenue?
JS: Yes, this will be entirely funded by Tokelau's fisheries revenue. And the Tokelau General Fono did approve that. The first three years it would have actually been the air service, the internet, and actually the new office in Apia, together with ship-to-shore project. So the conversation was, 'why can't we change our development conversation?' It's transport-transport. It's shipping-shipping. It's ship-to-shore ship-to-shore. Let's get something that can change our conversation and let's move on to a new landscape. So this is why the three phase air service approach was mooted as one of the first priorities in the first year. Believe you me, the women, the children, the elders, they wanted to change the way they travelled. The patients who were told they had to go on emergency evacuation on the Mataliki, they'd rather forgo the 24 hour travel and go on the two hour travel. So that was some of the complexities Dominic that we were trying to talk to the villages about as we began to assemble the development priorities for the four year plan.
DG: Indeed. What was New Zealand's awareness of the funding model at this point? Had this been mooted with New Zealand at all?
JS: New Zealand was aware of the funding model. I think naturally that the very thing they raised objections about was that it was actually a deficit budget. It was going to be about a couple of million deficit. But we actually had a four year budget framework plan that would actually ensure that in three years, the middle of two years, the budget would actually normalise again for us as we begin to engage in the bigger development stuff in the first year. And New Zealand had actually been given the budget, they held on to it, they raised the issue about a deficit budget. We went to Wellington, we responded to them on that and that was it. So for New Zealand to say that they're not aware of the developments, that they're not aware of the development framework is actually quite deceptive I think.
DG: So hence your comment in that written statement in response to Murray McCully's claims, when you say that that was "untruthful, irresponsible and ambiguous a statement"…
JS: Yes. We met with Murray McCully in June 2015, and we met with the Ulu of Tokelau. We actually conveyed to him that we were able to deal with air service and internet cable. At that time we were actually leveraging on the regional agenda - remember in 2015 regional air service and regional internet were actually quite at the top of the regional agenda at the Forum and all the Pacific Island countries - so we thought that we had quite a unique opportunity because we had funding that was coming through. And this funding, the way that it came through, allowed Tokelau to determine - you know, we're not running away from the fact that we have a constitutional relationship with New Zealand, that is still there, but I think we want New Zealand to fight harder to bring Tokelau's agenda rather than to bring Tokelau's agenda by virtue of its constitutional relationship. I think it's a give and take thing for us.
