Transcript
RALPH REGENVANU: Vanuatu is a country with a long history - similar to New Zealand - of being opposed to nucelar arms, of being opposed to armament, we're a long time member of the nuclear-free in the Pacific movement, one of the strongest countries for that, from the beginning. We've just voted in support of the new resolution against nuclear arms in the UN General Assembly last year. We're a member of the Non-Aligned Movement, I've just come back from the meeting (in Baku). Our whole history is one of not getting involved in militarisation of any sort. And so any suggestion that we would put a military base in our country, and make ourselves the target of possible nuclear attack, I mean that's just crazy.
JOHNNY BLADES: Vanuatu's prime minister Charlot Salwai was the first leader of a Pacific country to voice support for China's military expansion in the South China Sea, wasn't he?
RR: It wasn't support for military expansion. It was support for the principle that they used to claim that they had territorial rights over that area of the sea. What he said was that it was similar to the way which we sorted out our border with the Solomon Islands, which was on the basis of cultural and historic ties, rather than on the Convention of the Law of the Sea.
JB: Much of this angsting going on after the Fairfax reports in Australia seems to be just about Australia's interests, the western metropolitan powers. How about Vanuatu's view of all this? In terms of China's rising influence in our region, is that such a bad thing?
RR: Well, China is the latest big boy in the region. It's a role that's been previously enjoyed by Britain, France, Australia, to a certain extent New Zealand... although New Zealand's always been seen as being under Australia, like we are. I think this is a further chapter in the history of the Pacific. As Pacific islanders, we have seen these waves coming, and they keep coming. And in the future, maybe there'll be someone else. We just need to make sure that we in the Pacific can maintain our sovereignty and decide what we want for ourselves. That's really the point.
JB: Let's say that there's a change of government. What guarantee is there that the anti-militarisation stance remains?
RR: Well, you've got to remember that in Vanuatu, civil society, particularly the Chiefs - who are stronger here than perhaps any other Pacific Island country - and the churches are the main bodies that consistently push the government to follow certain policy directions. And there have been instances in the past, in particular when Sato Kilman was prime minister, when he decided to make some decisions, particularly regarding West Papua, that were not in line with our historical position, and there was a very strong movement, push-back from civil society when that happened. And civil society continues to... especially the chiefs and churches, continues to push a very strong line. For example, we have a National Council of Women calling for a complete ban of all seabed mining, positions supported by the Chiefs and so on. These are positions that the government hasn't even got there yet. And civil society is very demanding. I would expect that any move towards trying to militarise Vanuatu would be very strongly opposed, and any government that tried to do it would probably be removed from office.
JB: Vanuatu has a range of partners, aid partners. How does China rate among that? Is it a good partner who listens to what the people of Vanuatu and its government need?
RR: Well in terms of quantity of aid, just simply in those terms, Australia is still the largest partner of Vanuatu. China is probably second or third, I'm not sure. China specifically provides infrastructure projects, which is something that makes them a bit different to Australia and New Zealand, who traditionally have not done that. I think the niche they are setting right now is a niche that is one that is particularly felt to be in need in Vanuatu. We need certain infrastructure that is very difficult to get otherwise, you have to spend a lot of money and get a loan for. And a lot of the time, China comes in and offers to build this infrastructure at no cost. So obviously it's a very attractive offer for a country like Vanuatu.
JB: Can't all the partners get along, let's say? Isn't there scope for everyone working together in common interests in this region.
RR: Yes, I think there's more of a role for the Vanuatu government to try and bring all our partners to try and talk around the one table, and I think that's a lesson that we've learnt from this whole thing. We need to be more proactive in making sure that we get our partners to talk to each other, when in some instances they perhaps don't, which seems to be the case between Australia and China. I know that Australia and New Zealand talk to each other a lot. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to extend to China. But I think it's our job as the Vanuatu government to make sure that we get all our partners talking together and co-operating together, and making development in Vanuatu more effective as a result. We should be the ones taking the lead, and I think that's something we will have to step up on as a result of some of these, I suppose you could say, media conflicts that have arisen in recent months especially between Australia and China.